3 of my kids worked as volunteers in the former Yugoslavia after the war. so many people's lives were ruined even if they survived. they were forever damaged psychologically from the horrors of that war even if not hurt physically. nobody wins in a war, but the rich cash in.
It sits on its crumbling Empire and, like my cousin Vinnie says, "Yeah, we lie all the time, yeah, we stole it, and yeah, we kill a lot a folks, too. So, whataya's gonna dooo about it, huh? WTF ya's gonna dooo about it? So sit down, shut your yap, and quit rockin' the boat".
...I was in the former Yugoslavia right after the end of open hostilities, working for US DoD. What a mess. What a war crime. What a cash cow for The Bush / Clinton / Cheney Cabal. A lot of fraud, waste and abuse. A lot of Brown & Root Profits. Good people put in a very bad situation. I worked in Hungary for a while, same "war is a racket" outcomes as they cleaned up their mess in what was Yugoslavia. Loved Hungary.
Now the US-NATO are supporting a bloody war not to do the same to the Ukraine what they have done to Yugoslavia-Serbia. Why was it justified to split up Yugoslavia and not justified to do the same to the Ukraine, when if one looks at the situation, in both case, Ukraine is also an artificial entity, set up by political expediency, like Yugoslavia was! Ukraine is made up of territories-nationalities from, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Rumania and Byelorussia! Return the Territories, People to their respective Mother-Fatherlands and bring Peace to Europe! End the bloody conflict! What is holding that JUSTIFIED Outcome up?? That IS the question!
Bill Clinton and Mark Danner are lifetime members of the liberal-fascist Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), which has controlled US policy since WW2. Most of the NATO Supreme Commanders have been CFR members, including Gen. Wesley Clark who oversaw the Serbia operation. Clinton and Clark are also Rhodes Scholars:
"The first attacks occurred on the night of 24 March 1999... By the end of the third week, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, General Wesley K. Clark, had a force of nearly 1,000 aircraft, 54 percent of which belonged to the U.S. Air Force. NATO's master target list reflected the pressure to escalate the air offensive as it grew from 169 to more than 970 targets by the time the campaign ended in June." www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458957/1999-operation-allied-force/
Enough of the SitReps already; surely I'm not the only one yearning for a Plan of Action, if there's ever one. Da?
The Green Dragon Tavern, the Commitees of Correspondence come to mind. Perhaps a little help from outside our Little Island between the Oceans; perhaps even outside our Little Solar System?
Sitting by while the Monster eats it Tail, thrashing about in its Death Throes, destroying all in its reach like the attendant Whirlpool of a hulled ship going down, verily is beyond frustrating. It speaks to the soul, indeed, while Good Men do Nothing.
Our humanitarian organization volunteered in ex-Yugoslavia for 20 years from 1995 - 2005. We were in Bosnia during the NATO bombing of Serbia, and could see the NATO bombers flying in formation overhead on their way from their base in Aviano, Italy to Serbia. In September 1999 we made our first visit to Kosovo, and in 2000 we moved there to help with post-war traumatized children until 2004, when we moved to Serbia for another 10 years. We have seen up front and personally what NATO does to countries that dare to defy their dictates. NATO bombed Serbia to help Kosovo become independent, but condemns Russia for bombing Ukraine to help Donbass become independent. Pure international hypocrisy.
I went to the UN Report you mentionned, to store it because I oppose the Serbia bombing and was looking for evidence of double standard from NATO. But searching for the "conclusion" as you defined your quote, I discovered that you mislead your reader. You wrote :
"The UN report concludes,
" 'that the NATO forces deliberately attacked civilian infrastructure targets (and that such attacks were unlawful), deliberately or recklessly attacked the civilian population (...)' "
I found that it is NOT the conclusion, but the very second paragraph on section I, defining the mandate, which was precisely worded thus:
"2. Criticism of the NATO bombing campaign has included allegations of varying weight: a) that, as the resort to force was illegal, all NATO actions were illegal, and b) that the NATO forces deliberately attacked civilian infrastructure targets (and that such attacks were unlawful), deliberately or recklessly attacked the civilian population (...)"
So you deliberately misinform your reader, transforming an allegation to be verified (point b) into the conclusion.
Also the number of civilian death you report is not the figure the UN Report finds.
Too bad that a good point is sabotaged by such disinformation. How can we trust you for the rest ?
I remember this well. At the time “major media” here in America were covering it in such a way that I could tell they were hiding the facts. Less puppet-like than they are now, but nonetheless hiding things. They kept telling us that Milošević was guilty of genocide and continually spoke of “mass graves” but could never show any graves. The word “genocide” was continually employed without evidence. They were pumping our public with propaganda and most people didn’t take it seriously and just went on with their lives. I found it deeply troubling. They tried to make heroes of the F-16 pilots but the pilots didn’t seem proud of their work (my Dad was a fighter pilot. I know these guys). The best I could ever make out of the whole thing was that the crappy Clinton Crowd did it to kiss up to their muslim buddies. They never let on they were fighting for the muslims. I had to dig that up. I hope people in other lands realize that the great majority of Americans don’t agree with these actions. Our “deep state” has been in charge for quite a while. Their motivations are nearly impossible to discern except apparently blatant power posturing without purpose. Our Congress is pretty much a shadow and now we have a president who was forced on us. Frankly, I hope the Russians will get a move on and force the Ukrainians to sue for peace. Otherwise, I fear the warmongers in DC are fixing to pull us into yet another “fight for freedom & democracy ” against the latest hitler.
3 of my kids worked as volunteers in the former Yugoslavia after the war. so many people's lives were ruined even if they survived. they were forever damaged psychologically from the horrors of that war even if not hurt physically. nobody wins in a war, but the rich cash in.
It sits on its crumbling Empire and, like my cousin Vinnie says, "Yeah, we lie all the time, yeah, we stole it, and yeah, we kill a lot a folks, too. So, whataya's gonna dooo about it, huh? WTF ya's gonna dooo about it? So sit down, shut your yap, and quit rockin' the boat".
And, here, I sit on my hands, agrumblin'.
Roger T
The Occupied South
...I was in the former Yugoslavia right after the end of open hostilities, working for US DoD. What a mess. What a war crime. What a cash cow for The Bush / Clinton / Cheney Cabal. A lot of fraud, waste and abuse. A lot of Brown & Root Profits. Good people put in a very bad situation. I worked in Hungary for a while, same "war is a racket" outcomes as they cleaned up their mess in what was Yugoslavia. Loved Hungary.
This war was my red- pill moment.
Time for the USA to experience its Waterloo
Now the US-NATO are supporting a bloody war not to do the same to the Ukraine what they have done to Yugoslavia-Serbia. Why was it justified to split up Yugoslavia and not justified to do the same to the Ukraine, when if one looks at the situation, in both case, Ukraine is also an artificial entity, set up by political expediency, like Yugoslavia was! Ukraine is made up of territories-nationalities from, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Rumania and Byelorussia! Return the Territories, People to their respective Mother-Fatherlands and bring Peace to Europe! End the bloody conflict! What is holding that JUSTIFIED Outcome up?? That IS the question!
Bill Clinton and Mark Danner are lifetime members of the liberal-fascist Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), which has controlled US policy since WW2. Most of the NATO Supreme Commanders have been CFR members, including Gen. Wesley Clark who oversaw the Serbia operation. Clinton and Clark are also Rhodes Scholars:
"The first attacks occurred on the night of 24 March 1999... By the end of the third week, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, General Wesley K. Clark, had a force of nearly 1,000 aircraft, 54 percent of which belonged to the U.S. Air Force. NATO's master target list reflected the pressure to escalate the air offensive as it grew from 169 to more than 970 targets by the time the campaign ended in June." www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458957/1999-operation-allied-force/
Enough of the SitReps already; surely I'm not the only one yearning for a Plan of Action, if there's ever one. Da?
The Green Dragon Tavern, the Commitees of Correspondence come to mind. Perhaps a little help from outside our Little Island between the Oceans; perhaps even outside our Little Solar System?
Sitting by while the Monster eats it Tail, thrashing about in its Death Throes, destroying all in its reach like the attendant Whirlpool of a hulled ship going down, verily is beyond frustrating. It speaks to the soul, indeed, while Good Men do Nothing.
How, oh how, can we all be rid of the Beast?
Or at least help It on Its Way?
Roger T
The Occupied South
when any leader is called Hitler that means the jews are behind destroying him, it is called a jew coup
Our humanitarian organization volunteered in ex-Yugoslavia for 20 years from 1995 - 2005. We were in Bosnia during the NATO bombing of Serbia, and could see the NATO bombers flying in formation overhead on their way from their base in Aviano, Italy to Serbia. In September 1999 we made our first visit to Kosovo, and in 2000 we moved there to help with post-war traumatized children until 2004, when we moved to Serbia for another 10 years. We have seen up front and personally what NATO does to countries that dare to defy their dictates. NATO bombed Serbia to help Kosovo become independent, but condemns Russia for bombing Ukraine to help Donbass become independent. Pure international hypocrisy.
I went to the UN Report you mentionned, to store it because I oppose the Serbia bombing and was looking for evidence of double standard from NATO. But searching for the "conclusion" as you defined your quote, I discovered that you mislead your reader. You wrote :
"The UN report concludes,
" 'that the NATO forces deliberately attacked civilian infrastructure targets (and that such attacks were unlawful), deliberately or recklessly attacked the civilian population (...)' "
I found that it is NOT the conclusion, but the very second paragraph on section I, defining the mandate, which was precisely worded thus:
"2. Criticism of the NATO bombing campaign has included allegations of varying weight: a) that, as the resort to force was illegal, all NATO actions were illegal, and b) that the NATO forces deliberately attacked civilian infrastructure targets (and that such attacks were unlawful), deliberately or recklessly attacked the civilian population (...)"
So you deliberately misinform your reader, transforming an allegation to be verified (point b) into the conclusion.
Also the number of civilian death you report is not the figure the UN Report finds.
Too bad that a good point is sabotaged by such disinformation. How can we trust you for the rest ?
I remember this well. At the time “major media” here in America were covering it in such a way that I could tell they were hiding the facts. Less puppet-like than they are now, but nonetheless hiding things. They kept telling us that Milošević was guilty of genocide and continually spoke of “mass graves” but could never show any graves. The word “genocide” was continually employed without evidence. They were pumping our public with propaganda and most people didn’t take it seriously and just went on with their lives. I found it deeply troubling. They tried to make heroes of the F-16 pilots but the pilots didn’t seem proud of their work (my Dad was a fighter pilot. I know these guys). The best I could ever make out of the whole thing was that the crappy Clinton Crowd did it to kiss up to their muslim buddies. They never let on they were fighting for the muslims. I had to dig that up. I hope people in other lands realize that the great majority of Americans don’t agree with these actions. Our “deep state” has been in charge for quite a while. Their motivations are nearly impossible to discern except apparently blatant power posturing without purpose. Our Congress is pretty much a shadow and now we have a president who was forced on us. Frankly, I hope the Russians will get a move on and force the Ukrainians to sue for peace. Otherwise, I fear the warmongers in DC are fixing to pull us into yet another “fight for freedom & democracy ” against the latest hitler.
Dutch:
De les van het bombarderen van Servië in 1999 wordt in het Westen genegeerd
https://www.frontnieuws.com/de-les-van-het-bombarderen-van-servie-in-1999-wordt-in-het-westen-genegeerd/